Happy New Year! This week, we’re still talking about men on TV, but we take a moment to look back at an old favorite. A beloved and seminal show at the time, was it as breakthrough as we thought? Find out! At least there’s a current show that gets it right when it comes to evolved relationships and masculinities. Samantha and Remoy each share a show worth exploring.
We’re at the start of award season, so it’s a perfect time to continue exploring MASKulinity on TV. This week, Samantha and Remoy walk each other through popular shows they’ve watched and ask, How are men and masculinity represented in these shows? Are they challenging the norm of MASKulinity or reinforcing it?
Referenced on this episode:
COMPANION PIECES:
Remoy Philip: [00:00:00] Remoy George Phillip, the first.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: And I'm Samantha Nzessi-Kifle.
Remoy Philip: This is Masculinity.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: The show that investigates the performance of masculinity in the world today. And you know, we spell it with a hard K. Happy New Year.
Remoy Philip: 2025. Here we are. All right. Faking it till we make like really though.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: Um, so how were the holidays for you, Remoy?
Remoy Philip: They were fun. They were good. A lot of good friend, fam, chosen family hangs, as they say, got a little bit of this sickness. So I'm still recovering from whatever cold flu bugs that were going around that holiday time. So, you know, we're out here.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: That's I mean, similar, you know, kicked it with my fam, kicked it with some friends a little bit, try to get some sleep, couldn't, um, but [00:01:00] yeah.
Also, my family met Kenji. Kenji is my aggressively loving 11-month-old Pitbull who doesn't know his own strength. Um, and my mom loves him, which I thought she would even though she said she wouldn't. So yeah, it was fun. Two weeks flew by and now we're back at work. So.
Remoy Philip: Ballpark. How many times did Kenji try to like, uh, destroy you or destroy a person during this time?
15? 7? 20? Oh
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: my god. That's destroy, destroy me? Like his version of love is destroying me. So like, that's an all-day, everyday phenomenon. Uh, I don't know. We'll go for like a solid at least 50. I love him though. I love him so much. He's so sweet.
Remoy Philip: No, I'm sure. Dog people.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: No, I never thought I would be this person.
Um, but the other thing that happened is that I think I do have a new year's resolution.
Remoy Philip: Yeah. Um, okay, cool. But I thought you were done with that.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: You know, usually, yeah. But it kind of feels necessary this year. I mean, with everything that's happened, I think I've resolved [00:02:00] to write more, you know, like I have all these stories in my head that explore gender equity and what it looks like in relationships.
So
Remoy Philip: yeah, I'll just be stacking the Samantha romance novels as they come out. Sure. But yeah, I thought we were talking about TV today. No.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: Well, there goes my brilliant segue. Thanks, Remoy. You're welcome. Thanks. Okay. Well, what I was going to say is that the Golden Globes just happened and there was one show that was nominated for a few things that I think does a decent job demonstrating healthy masculinity.
It's called Nobody Wants This. Have you seen it?
Remoy Philip: Absolutely the F NOT.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: I figured out, well, Kristen Bell's character cohosts a podcast about sex and relationships with her friend and they're working on getting this big podcasting deal, right? So she meets a rabbi at a party, and they start dating. The series is essentially, you know, how they navigate that.
Remoy Philip: I'm assuming Adam Brody with that jawline and that hair, he's the hot. care rabbi, right? You would be right. Yes. And I'm also [00:03:00] assuming somehow he's like the nurturing, sweet, kind modeling of healthy masculinity.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: Uh, yeah, that's a definitely a fair assumption. And you're right. You know, it's like literally from his OC days all the way up till now, still modeling that just healthy, chill masculinity.
And his brother also has some good moments. But what I was actually thinking about is the precursor to these open conversations on TV about women dating and sex and like women getting paid to talk about them, because in 1998, there was a certain show that came out that primed audiences for seeing that.
Right. Like women making a living talking about women's sex lives. And I'll let you guess which one it is right after the break.
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Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: And we're back. And Remoy was just about to guess what show from the 90s walked so women making money talking about sex could run.
What do you think this is, Remoy?
Remoy Philip: I mean, in the late 90s, when I'm presuming what show it is came out, I was a horny [00:05:00] teenager and HBO and was a place to, you know, see boobs and stuff. And this was a show where you could see booms very occasionally. So this was sex in the city.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: It's interesting. You were like seeing boobs.
I was like, just trying to learn English. But yes, yes, you're correct.
Remoy Philip: Tomato, tomato again.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: Um, yeah, so there are so many podcasts, like podcasts with women having these conversations, right? Like now, right? Like women talk about sex. But in 1998, when Sex and the City came out, it was kind of a breakthrough moment.
Like you had the golden girls, right? You had Rose talking about sex, right? It was Rose, not Blanche.
Remoy Philip: Uh,
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: it was Blanche. Blanche. It was Blanche. You're right. You're right. It was Blanche, but it wasn't in the lens of women talking about so much that women writers are actually making money from talking about this, right?
Like, and from women reading that content.
Remoy Philip: Yeah, I think I see what you mean. Like women talking about sex still today, in a lot of places, it's pretty taboo.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: Oh, yeah. And while you had unprecedented conversations and [00:06:00] situations that were explored on this mainstream show, it was a show of its time, and watching the show now is sort of like, how was this allowed to rock?
Remoy Philip: Right, but weren't, like, all the characters just these, like, well off cisgender people? Skinny white women, right?
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: Yeah. I mean, it honestly becomes even more interesting when we take a look at masculinity with a hard K on the shore, right? Like the kind of men that were viewed as dateable or marriage material versus the ones that gave the ick, as the kids say, like feels representative of masculinity.
Remoy Philip: So we're going to look at a show about women, but focus on the men instead. OK, cool. Yeah, your idea, not mine.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: I mean, hey, you know, that's fair. But this is a good bridge to seeing how women characters perpetuate patriarchy as well on screen, which honestly is a conversation that we should be having a lot more.
Remoy Philip: Yeah, man. I mean, patriarchy is a cultural situation. It's not only just us meeting the guys. [00:07:00] So much of the performance, you know, of masculinity kind of, you know, in our modern commodified world is about men making them viable candidates to be women's partners, protectors, providers. So, um, I'm wondering the show that I only watched for horniness.
Did it, uh, challenge any of that?
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: I mean, it honestly really did not like the men were kind of one dimensional. Like, for example, if you take Mr. Big, who is this Tycoon, whose real name we don't even know until the end of the series. Like, yeah, like he's a perfect example of that.
Remoy Philip: I'm assuming has a large eggplant.
Um, but is that right? I mean, what else are we talking about here? I mean, it was
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: implied. It was implied. Well, so let me put you on game. So Carrie and Big meet in the first episode. He's her on and off lover throughout the show. They name nickname him big because of everything about him is big, right? He's big, tall guy.
He has success, successful, big job. He usually [00:08:00] rolls up to an apartment in a town car and just rolls down the window and just like has a rose just poking out the window. A glass of champagne, a gift, whatever. You know, just tycoon chip.
Remoy Philip: Sure. Life is that easy. Cool, man. That good for you? Chris knows.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: Yeah. I mean, everything about him can be viewed kind of as the traditional.
Traditionally ideal man, right? He's got money, he's not stingy with it, doesn't talk about his feelings on that much, but he can crack a joke and be very charming. He can whisk Harry off to St. Bart's whenever he feels like it. Like really ideal, but only on paper though.
Remoy Philip: I don't know what you're saying.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: Well, so he's emotionally distant. His career is his main focus. Carrie's always second. Being with him is an emotional roller coaster, if you will. Shout out to Vivian Green. She feels like she never knows where she stands, even though a lot of times he does tell her where she stands and she just doesn't listen.
She doesn't like the answer.
Remoy Philip: Yeah. All the tropes. Why? What are we doing here? Okay, fine. I thought it was, this was a feminist show.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: Exactly. But we'll get into that, you know? So like, somehow [00:09:00] Big is like still painted as Carrie's ideal, right? He's still her ultimate love interest. She spends a lot of the show thinking about Big.
What is Big doing? See, she's trying to get back with Big. In spite of her finding a great man in Aidan. Like, that's kind of like the other love interest in the show.
Remoy Philip: Okay, but If Aidan is great, why doesn't she just pick him?
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: That's a really good question. I mean, the short answer, honestly, is that he's a nice guy.
If we're going to keep going with the tropes and the stereotypes, like there are a number of ways that the show demonstrates that he's a better partner for Carrie. Still in the traditional sense, let's say that. Um, but yeah, he's better for her. He asked her to give us booking to be with him. Whereas Carrie and Big smoke All the time together.
He's a cigar smoker, just unhealthier, right? Or unhealthy, right? Big wasn't willing to go to Carrie's apartment because he liked his own bed. Whereas Aidan comes over to Carrie's all the time. He offers to fix her floorboard. He's always trying to fix shit around the house. You know, they even wait to like sleep together, Aidan and [00:10:00] Carrie, whereas Big and Carrie slept together on their first date.
So, you know.
Remoy Philip: I mean, Aidan sounds like he's set up to be, uh, the Adam Brody, right? Like the character that I would fall in love with, but. I know who this actor is, uh, it's John Corbett and I hate John Corbett, so I can't stand with Aidan. But I can't stand with Mr. Big because he sucks too, so I don't know.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: He does like, how can anybody hate John Corbett, but, John Corbett, but, I digress. Uh, yeah. Aidan's gonna do anything for her, including letting Big crash their weekend getaway, because he and Carrie are friends now, I guess, and he's having dating trouble, so now he wants to, like, come up to the cabin and, like, talk it out with Carrie and Aidan.
says yes. It's like, what would you have done this? If you were Aidan, you're going to let the person that your girlfriend cheated on you with come up to the cabin. Talk about his dating life.
Remoy Philip: Like where are we? I've been in instances where I'm more of the big character and less of the Aidan minus the big part.[00:11:00]
Um, but whatever, man, this show's stupid. I don't know. It's one dimensional seeming, but you
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: find out, well, you know, you're proof that anybody can reform. Okay. So yeah, you know, um, I feel like there's been a lot of discourse on this, but Carrie is a bit of an asshole, right? I mean, like dudes are bending over backwards for her all the time, except for the one that she wants to be with Mr.
Big and it's almost because he like doesn't bend over backwards for her. Like he stands her up at the altar. Yeah. And in the, in the movie, and she's like, Oh, um, I tried to be bigger than big, like blaming herself for getting stood up at the altar. You imagine.
Remoy Philip: Yeah, this is just annoying me right now. So I'm definitely glad I didn't watch it in all its patriarchal nonsense.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: Yeah, like Carrie irked me the whole series. Like at the time I felt like Aidan might've been a better choice because I was like 19, 20. And I just couldn't fathom that, you know, a woman might be able to live her life, be fulfilled, live it well. without being with someone. And a lot of people on the show felt the same way.
Like all the main characters [00:12:00] felt the same way. Like she had to choose somebody. She couldn't stay alone.
Remoy Philip: Well, then I'm wondering, why did you keep watching it? And what do you how do you feel about keeping watching? How do you feel about it now?
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: You know, those are really good questions. I kept watching it because it was.
Like I was, I was in the sauce, man. I was in the patriarchy sauce. I was like, these four beautiful women that wear designer clothes that I'll never get to wear are like running around New York City dating all these hot guys. Like it was motherfucking dope. But then, you know, looking back. I'm like, they were upholding certain standards of femininity that were just, you know, for wealthy white women that had nothing to do with me.
Right? But, you know, I didn't have the wherewithal to catch that. And now I would not have picked either Big or Aidan for Carrie. Like, Aidan's character was the nicer side of patriarchal manhood, so to speak, right? But, and that would have worked for Carrie because that's kind of what she was looking for ish.[00:13:00]
But. You know, like at the end of the day, it was really very much this kind of like battle, you know, of the dudes or whatever, but this bad boy tycoon versus like this nurturing provider. And it just felt like a, it just feels now, like it's such a dilution of the humanity and men, like all the guys on the show sort of played into a stereotype that fell into one of three categories.
Like you're either the provider who was emotionally present, the provider who was emotionally absent, or the playboy. And like, as a partner, like an actual partner, not being a provider was out of the question. And I kind of want to ask you, are you, do you fall into any of these three categories? Let's think about 25 year old Remoy.
Remoy Philip: I don't know, man. I was just a dumb kid. I can't. I was, I was, no,
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: no, you weren't the situation,
Remoy Philip: but I've always contained my multitudes, man. And so I'm [00:14:00] just, these characters sound pretty flat, you know what I mean?
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: Um, honestly, it just goes back to that thing of just because women are front and center does not mean it's not patriarchal, right?
Like even Steve was my favorite out of all of them by far, cause he's so kind, so open, and, you know, he felt emasculated when he didn't have the proper suit for A fancy party at Miranda's law firm.
Remoy Philip: Uh, that just sounds dumb, but fine. Okay, sure.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: I mean, I feel like that's. That is real for so many of us, like there's so many people, you know, like the whole like money situation plays a part in our relationship, but, but Steve was so good to Miranda in so many different ways.
She had her own money. In the world of the show, though, they could only work if he was a provider himself, even though she was really honestly more worried about his maturity level, um, than his bank account by the time they get together. I'll be it. Accidentally, you know, he's become the owner of a bar, right?
Just like way up in the in his economic situation.
Remoy Philip: I just like my thing with this is like, it's [00:15:00] gonna go back to the chicken or egg. Are people doing that because of their defaults or is it because they're being conditioned by shows like these that are continuing this narrative, right?
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: Exactly, right?
Because shows like this do box us into these narrow choices. Um, you know, like when we talked about TV dads, for example, like there was this tension that each character was exploring within their own masculinity, how comedy can grapple with the mass that is masculinity, right? Masculinity with a hard K, like society thinking of what a real man is versus what the reality is of just being a man, right?
And how does the realities can be different? Like this is a comedy show, too. But that tension just has been completely flattened out so that they could build stereotypical profiles of dudes for men to choose from.
Remoy Philip: Like a dating app come to life.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: Yep. I see that actually. And not to mention the patriarchy in the show didn't stop at men, right?
[00:16:00] The flattening out due to patriarchy did not stop at men. Like, it was, there was a lot of phobia. A lot, a lot of phobia.
Remoy Philip: Sure, rich white women in the 90s and 2000s? No phobias, no.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: We didn't really
Remoy Philip: watch the show, but I can imagine.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: Yeah, I mean, just because there were gay characters does not mean that they were portrayed as full humans with multitudes, like it was kind of, you know, if you had to look at it, really, it was like about the way that LGBTQ characters were talked to and talked about that was suspect rather than like whether or not they were there.
Shrinking Snippet: Uh oh.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: Yeah, I mean, One episode, Samantha wants these black trans women to stop talking loudly outside her window at night. And these women are misgendered the whole time, you know, and carries voiceover along with a lot of other kind of like weird. like racial, like obvious references that are really cringy.
Um, and basically it's like, Oh, Samantha gets her way with men. Right. And it's like, that's not what's [00:17:00] going on. Um, at one point, Carrie says that being bisexual is just a pit stop to being gay. And of course, we're only talking about men. We're not even talking about women being like, you know, part of the LGBTQ community or femme people or anything.
So,
Remoy Philip: yeah. So like, what is good about this show?
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: I mean, at the time. It did explore a lot of issues from women's perspective, like unapologetically, so to speak, like menopause loss. incidents during sex, rejection, divorce, impotence. Like each of the characters of the main characters had a distinct personality.
So you really saw how they responded to things differently. So in a way there was an attempt at multitudes. Right. And I feel like that's where it could feel like the show was empowering to women, just acknowledging the fullness of women's lives in a way that supposedly hadn't been done before. Now, women being both consumers of sex related content and providers of sex related content was [00:18:00] also especially cool.
Yeah. I mean, sure. Why women? Okay. Right. Right. I mean, the show, the show explored a lot, a lot of issues, but there's just certain socioeconomic issues that so many of us women like deal with. That's just never came up. I mean, Samantha got into it with like, like a black woman, Samantha
Remoy Philip: being Kim Cattrall's character, right?
She was like, yeah. The kind of more sexually, uh, adventurous and strong willed type of character. Yeah.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: So she, she gets into it because she's trying to date, she's dating this black dude or whatever, and her sister is basically like, you can't date my brother, da da da da da da, and it's like so It feels very unmotivated if you're watching the show.
And for me, that really reinforced the whole like upper middle class whiteness of the show, like watching it now. At the time, I was kind of like, oh, this is I was like, white people deal with racism, too. Just kidding. I wasn't like that. But [00:19:00] that's kind of what the show was trying to make in the show, like Carrie spending all her money on Manolo Blahnik's.
And that's why she can't afford to like, I don't know. Fix her computer. Monolobonics are 600 a pair. It's just, it's crazy.
Remoy Philip: Yeah, Alex, can I get, uh, things I can't relate to for 400, please? Right,
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: right.
Remoy Philip: Um, so and the, the show is all about dating and finding men to marry. Like that sounds lame. Patriarchal, no?
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: Pretty much. I mean, outside of Samantha, you know, yeah, like, At one point, I mean, Marat is kind of considered, she's like the lawyer who's like hyper pragmatic. She's kind of considered to be the feminist, if feminists have been a word in this show. And she did call the group out once for being accomplished smart women who spend so much of their time worrying about boyfriends, which was true, but then she kind of walked it back, you know?
So people weren't really thinking about decentering men like that back then. And also, dare I say it, feminism wasn't really in the [00:20:00] main discourse back then. Like. Not like, not like it is now. Not like it had been prior to then and after that.
Remoy Philip: Yeah, I guess that tracks. I'm sure people were thinking about it.
I mean, Feminine Mystique was still 30 years prior and there's feminist movements that came before that, but they kind of died down by that point.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: Um, and so like now there's like a reboot and just like that, which kind of feels like it's trying to reclaim old Sex and the City vibes with like a tablespoon of wokeness.
Remoy Philip: Yeah, I don't know what that means. Yeah.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: Well, I hate when people use that term because no one besides the black people who came up with that word Know what being woke or like staying woke means but and some other folks obviously, but you know You have a lot more lgbtq and by poc characters actually calling women the women out on their shit
Remoy Philip: That's a good thing.
I feel no.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: Well, it seems like it is right. Like Miranda stripping all over herself trying to do the right thing. You know, she [00:21:00] gets course corrected by her hot black professor who is having magical sex of her own, which seems good on the surface. But then it's like, it feels like a lot of the wokeness was a lot, right?
Like, including that it felt kind of to have these by PLC people. and LGBTQ people show up in the fullness on the show.
Remoy Philip: Did it?
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: Yeah, a little bit. I mean, just in the sense that it feels like a lot of the people of color on the show and the LGBTQ people on the show, like the gay folks on the show, are there to teach the white women, like the white cis het women something.
Right. So like they're there to serve a function. They don't exist for their own purpose. And like, that's not like in a supporting character type of way, but it's literally in like a like a inclusion and diversity. Let's make sure that we have, you know. By POC folks and, you know, gay folks on the show so that we don't get canceled type shit.
So just one dimensional.
Remoy Philip: Damn. Um, okay. But what about the men in this reboot?
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: Well, no spoilers because the show's [00:22:00] still on, but there are like questions of division of labor among relationships come up, right? Like women pursuing their careers, which leaves the husbands to figure it out at home.
Remoy Philip: Sounds sick.
Um, but they're all married now.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: Um, well, yeah, so Samantha's actually gone, but the other three are married. So Charlotte, when they have, when this, when the show starts, like Charlotte has a new friend played by new co Ari Parker, who they're both more traditional than Carrie and Miranda are. And their husbands are the type of guys to ask them what's for dinner, even if they see them walking as like falling asleep at their desk type of situation.
Remoy Philip: Yeah. This sounds like 1990s original sex in the city. No.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: Right. Exactly. Um, and like, I appreciate that that came up because, you know, we talked on this show about how, you know, COVID. When COVID was at its height, a lot of women were spending 28 percent more time on housework than men were in the household, [00:23:00] even though both were working full time.
And so one of the women in the show defends herself against her husband, but the other one just kind of like brushes it off. But what I wanted to see was like, the dudes checking themselves about that, right? It's like you said you're supportive of your wife's career, be supportive of your wife's career, but neither of them checks themselves on it.
It's just kind of like,
Remoy Philip: Yeah, it sounds like there aren't a lot of different masculinities, uh, in this reboot either.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: Yeah, you know, it feels like it'll build a little bit of flattening. Besides the, the main white women that are there and maybe a little bit of Nicole Ari Parker, which is great. Um, it's, it's all.
Pretty flat, flat, uh, and audience correct me if I'm wrong, right? Like, keep me honest. Like, I really honestly don't see how it's like evolved and become sort of like this, um, thoughtful show. I still feel like it's. largely patriarchal. [00:24:00] Um, in particular on the part of the men, which is disappointing. Can we please get some thoughtful masculinity in these premium shows?
Remoy Philip: Well, I thought you'd never ask. That's coming up right after the break.
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Remoy Philip: And we're back. Uh, Samantha, do you remember what show I introduced you to last episode?
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: Uh, Pop Quiz. Okay. Um, I believe that was Shrinking.
Remoy Philip: Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. But, the real Pop Quiz, do you remember what Shrinking is about?
Not the bonus question, the real quiz. What is Shrinking about?
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: Um, well, Harrison Ford's in it, so there's probably like a curmudgeon situation going on, um, and he's a therapist, so he's like, you know, therapist, who's grumpy, but trying to be better.
Remoy Philip: I won't say an F, but I'll give you a C, maybe even a C minus.
Oh my
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: god. Or maybe
Remoy Philip: a B, I don't know. Um, but in the wake of Let's
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: go with B at least.
Remoy Philip: Your answer, that was adequate. At [00:26:00] best, and last week's appetizer, not to mention all the Golden Globes snubs shrinking got this last weekend. Let's expand your knowledge and our audience's overall appreciation of shrinking even more today.
Come on.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: I mean, I'd like to do that because I'm not a C student, so yes.
Remoy Philip: Yeah, but I'll go, let's, let's do it a different way than we did with Yuru and Sex and the City. For moi, ever the contrarian. Keepin it on brand, baby. Uh, what I thought we'd do is I'd show you five different clips from throughout the two seasons of the show, and you can just ask me questions about those scenes.
Um, pop quiz me, actually, you know, test my own fandom and knowledge. Oh, I like that. Let's do it. Yeah, and these clips, you know, I pick them as we go through it. I hope you and the audience will get to know the show and kind of the storylines and characters and naturally you'll pull out some of the masculinity themes.
How does that sound?
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: That sounds awesome. I'm very ready to pop quiz you.
Remoy Philip: Okay, let's do um, the first, actually before, do you remember the cast of the show?
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: Oh yeah, Jason Segel's also in [00:27:00] this. Uh, and I want to
Remoy Philip: say, okay, we're at a B plus.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: Thank you. Thank you. Um, I think Jessica Williams is in this. My girl from the, she used to be in the, um, the daily show.
Really tall. She's like six foot.
Remoy Philip: You remember you weren't there, but you remember the time I like, Was hanging out with Jessica Williams and had, like, thought she was somebody we worked with in Soho. I was like, who is that girl? I know who that is. Didn't we, like, work with her, like, in Soho somewhere? And people were like, what?
Dude, she's on TV.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: Oh my god, that's wild.
Remoy Philip: And I was like, oh yeah.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: How are you hanging out with
Remoy Philip: her? Do you remember the hot bird, uh, beer garden? Yeah,
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: yeah.
Remoy Philip: We were all there for Chris Randall's birthday and Jessica Williams birthday was that, party was that same time.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: Oh my god.
Remoy Philip: And we were just the next table over and I just kept being like, yo, I know her.
I don't freaking know her. How do I? Me and a couple of people were like, Yeah, how do we know her? And then Sandra's like, Idiots, she's on TV. And I was like, Oh yeah.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: That's dope, that's dope. Shout out to Hot Bird. That's a bomb ass chicken and [00:28:00] waffles. Like, really, I mean, probably weren't eating some chicken, but yeah.
Remoy Philip: Vegans still drank beer at the time. A lot of good beer. Um, okay, speaking of, uh, Jessica Williams and the cast of Your Name, it's actually a full ensemble show, like a lot of lesser known actors that, I don't know if I even remember the names, but just great characters come to life, a lot of hot comedy. You can see the writers and as the show progresses, like finding real, like stars in like their, in the sub characters that come to life throughout the series.
And, uh, I think you'll see that in our. Um, and you know, it's a little bit of an antithesis to the tail ends of what we talked about in Sex and the City. So, you ready? May I help you? Just, uh,
Shrinking Snippet (2): looking for a dead plant.
Shrinking Snippet: That is not your trash.
Shrinking Snippet (2): Okay. Let's start over. So, my name is Sean, and I'm guessing you're Karen?
Shrinking Snippet: It's Pam. Pam, the family knows him. Why don't you go home and post some shit on Nextdoor [00:29:00] and how the neighborhood's changing?
Shrinking Snippet (2): He's staying with us, Pam. Were you dropping off some welcome muffins?
Shrinking Snippet: Wait, the guy that almost beat someone to death is staying with you? Jimmy, what the fuck are you doing? It's
Shrinking Snippet (2): fine, Alice is cool with it.
Shrinking Snippet: No, I'm not, but I agree Pam's a racist.
Shrinking Snippet (2): I'm moving into VA housing. Hey, you don't owe her an explanation.
Shrinking Snippet: Why am I the bad guy? Liz and I are just trying to protect the neighborhood. Stop, there's no Liz and I. You need me over here, babe? No. Oh, thank God. Hey, Jimmy. Hey, Derek. Hey, Pam. Hey. No, there's no hey, Pam.
We don't like Pam. Got it. Eat a dick, Pam.
Remoy Philip: OK, so this is from, uh, this scene is from an early part of season one. As we're getting to know all about the show. So, Samantha, what would you like to know about this scene?
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: OK, so both Jason Segel's character and the dude that was, you know, I mean, I think the audience gathered that this is a black man that was going through looking for the plant.
Have a black eye. Did they fight each other?
Remoy Philip: [00:30:00] So in the episode that we, the clip we saw last. Uh, episode of ours, um, we saw a father talking to Jason Segel, uh, Harrison Ford. So this was his son, Sean is the character's name, who was served in the military and came back with some severe post traumatic stress syndrome.
And he was, um, got into some Disorderly conduct, uh, coming back with the aggression and violence. And he was mandated by the courts to see a therapist and yada, yada, yada. He gets connected to Jason Siegel and Siegel himself is going through a little bit of a Renaissance in his career and come up with this new treatment method of getting very personally involved.
And to the degree that he starts, he asked Sean to come. live with him in the guest house. So Sean, this young black man, is now living, uh, in, you know, middle class, upper middle class Pasadena with Jason Segel and [00:31:00] hijinks ensue.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: So Jason Segel is married, right? Do they have any kids?
Remoy Philip: Uh, Jason Segel was married.
Uh, and his daughter is one of the people you saw in that clip. She's the one who's like in the house and so she doesn't agree with this, but Pam is a racist. Uh, that's Jason Segel's daughter. Um, his wife and her mother, uh, died tragically in a drunk driving accident where she was not the drunk person.
And so Jason Segel character, Jimmy has also been going through a very serious depression. And hence the, you know, I mentioned he's going through his own revival of trying new things in his practice. It's also a way for him to kind of treat his own, uh, trauma and pain is to help these other people way in really dramatic ways.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: I like that because I feel like some people might feel a way like you're living with your daughter. You [00:32:00] have this grown man moving with you. You don't know where that's going to go. So, um, I feel like that's, that's, that's a departure for something that we would, you know, Which I appreciate.
Remoy Philip: What else?
Maybe let's do one more question if you got it. If not, we can move to the next clip.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: What's going on with Derek? Is he just like really, really, is he really as nice as he seems, like super supportive and chill?
Remoy Philip: Oh, man. When I mentioned like some characters, like really, come to life and like you can tell that they were written as initially as minor characters but then they come to life and they get written like more and more.
Uh, Derek becomes the star of the show, Ted McGinley, like he's hilarious and so charming and so is his wife who As in this clip, we just saw Liz. So Liz and Derek, they're initially these very small characters, but they become such hilarious best friends to the overall group and become, bring the ensemble of Derek is hilarious.
But the different types of quote unquote, masculine represented in the show is so charming and [00:33:00] fun. And Derek is a really fun way it's represented. So love Derek. Great character. Beautiful. Yeah. All right. Well, you know, um, This last clip, we got a lot out of it. Voices, characters, even story, and you asked a question that I helped kind of tease some of it out.
Now we're going to make a huge leap for the next clip and go into season two and it helps fill in some of the backstory that we just touched on. Plus, you know, some of the masculinity and intimacy that we usually regularly don't get to see on screen. So you ready?
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: Jimmy
Shrinking Snippet: was right about one thing. The importance of facing your demons head on.
That means seeing an old friend. You got the coping skills. Do it. You can't spend your life hiding from your trauma. If
you don't truly deal with your past, it'll come back for you. I[00:34:00]
came here to apologize. You dare, you should go. I know you must hate me, but I'm here. I would really like Enough!
Shrinking Snippet: Out of here! Get out of here! Get the f out of here!
Ad Break: Hey, how'd the rest of your day go? Yeah,
Shrinking Snippet (2): yeah, it was good. It was great.
Remoy Philip: Wow. What burning questions do you have for me about this scene?
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: Okay, so I'm assuming, obviously, that the guy who rolled up in the hospital Distant Seagull saw [00:35:00] him. They had like a flashback of the, what I presume was the accident with his wife and other daughter dying, right? And so, that guy comes to the hospital to apologize.
He's like, get the fuck out of here. Does the daughter know that the guy is coming to the hospital to apologize? Like, she seemed like she knew something. Or maybe she was just reading his energy.
Remoy Philip: Yeah, so It's a little bit of like, uh, there's a lot happening in the scene. So initially, Harrison Ford's character, Paul, is, is, um, talking to Sean.
So Sean, again, the war veteran, counseling him on some, uh, specific traumas he's going through and how to navigate that with some friends in his life. But at the same time, we see on screen, Jason Segel's character of Jimmy doing two things. He's, he's at the same therapist clinic and, The character who accidentally, drunkenly murdered Jimmy's wife, played by Brett Goldstein [00:36:00] from Ted Lasso, for the Ted Lasso fans out there, Apple crossover.
Um, shows up at the clinic to maybe, we don't know why, and right when Jimmy sees him, he like starts losing his shit. And so this is deep into season two and Jimmy's been working on the trauma of his, of his now past wife and partner and the effects that that's had on him now as a single parent. Uh, but now he's can literally can forced, uh, he's literally forced to confront the individual that caused so much pain and harm in his life and how he reacts is very aggressively and violent towards him.
And at this point in the show, his daughter, who we see towards the end and is asking him how his day is gone, uh, doesn't know that they have, he has seen this perpetrator of accidental violence and trauma in his life.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: Wow. Um, I mean, I thought it was dope how they were like, what is it? What's the film term?
Like juxtaposing or like, they're like paralleling scenes [00:37:00] or whatever. It's like confronting the trauma while he's talking to dude in the, well, Harrison Ford's character is talking to dude in the office. It's like Jason Segel's character is like, Definitely confronting that head on, like in the therapist office, just really good, good TV
Remoy Philip: and doing it poorly, though.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: Yeah. Yeah. Which is, I think, great, because it's like, okay, you can therapize all you want. But when that shit hits you, it's like, you gotta, that's, that's when you, that's when you have to apply what you've learned. Right. And sometimes it's not, it takes a long, it takes a while. It's not something that you can like flip on and off.
Even if you've done the internal work, like the actual application of the work, right. Yeah. You know, take a while. So love that. Um, I don't really, I have more comments than questions because I feel, I feel like I kind of get everything else that's going on. Um, but one thing that, like, that was hard that, that, that, that, You know, my heart like baby sank a little bit [00:38:00]was when his daughter asked him how he is and he says everything is fine because it's like, what can you say?
You know, your daughter lost her mom and you just saw the person who did it. And like, what are you supposed to say? Like, can he be anything other than stoic in that situation? Protect her, so to speak.
Remoy Philip: Well, I'll just say this, that like, what's another thing in the show that I don't know if we'll get to through these clips, but all the characters are all going on their quote unquote journeys.
Right. So Jimmy, um, is doing all this, but a good chunk of the first season, again, this is more in the, uh, second season. So when we hear his daughter, Jimmy's daughter, Alice, like ask him how he's doing in a very kind, thoughtful way, that was not the case for most of the first season because of how much. Uh, he had gone off on his own bender to cope with his trauma of drinking and alcohol and drugs and being a bad father.
Alice was [00:39:00] supremely pissed at her father and there was no kindness or support either way. There was more resentment, pain and frustration. So by this point, they're back to an evolved state and Jimmy doesn't want to fuck that up, right? So at the end when he's like, Oh, everything's fine. He's trying to, he doesn't want to.
cause any more pain or fraction friction between him and his daughter.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: And then that look on her face is probably like, oh shit. What if he's drinking again? Type thing. OK,
Remoy Philip: it could be. Well, there's um, you know, there's the one person that I'm best friends with, obviously, because I remember who her name is and who she is.
We haven't seen her in these clips so far. And that's Jessica Williams, best part of the show, possibly the third therapist of the group, Gabby. And I'll think I think you'll appreciate that. This clip from her back in season one. I'm sorry that I had sex
Shrinking Snippet (2): with Auntie Gabby.
Shrinking Snippet: Oh, my God. Dude, she's literally never called me Auntie Gabby in her fucking life.
Why would you say that? Are [00:40:00] you trying to make it weird? I'm not
Shrinking Snippet (2): trying. It's just happening.
Shrinking Snippet: OK, I'm going to go.
Shrinking Snippet (2): Wait, please, please, please. Just we feel like the only way to get to the other side of this is with an honest conversation. That's
Shrinking Snippet: right. I don't want to hear about how you desecrated Gabby. Hold up.
We actually desecrated each other.
Shrinking Snippet (2): That's right. She did a lot of the heavy lifting.
Shrinking Snippet: Anne, you know me. You really think I didn't have a fucking say in this? Hmm? You think it's just all based on his charisma and his game? Look at your dad's face. That's the face of somebody who's only slept with what? Hmm?
Two to three women tops? It's just face. Okay. Oh my god. Fine, you win. Gabby, okay, I'm fucking mad at you now too. Do you want me to call you mommy? Hey, I don't like that. I don't like that one bit. Your father and I, we had a discussion, and we decided that it was a huge mistake.
Shrinking Snippet (2): Absolutely right. You We were both just in a, in a vulnerable spot.
No. Okay. And it meant nothing. Nothing.
Shrinking Snippet: So to get this straight, you bang someone who doesn't mean anything to you, but meant a lot to mom and you did it in mom's bed.
Shrinking Snippet (2): It was my bed too. Okay. Did it come from her childhood [00:41:00]home? Yes. Was that a gift from grandpa after grandma died? Sure. But it wasn't just her bed.
It was mine also. Also, didn't all happen in the bed.
Shrinking Snippet: Stop,
Shrinking Snippet (2): stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. There was some standing. Oh, Jesus.
Shrinking Snippet: I'm going to go pew, pew, pew, pew, pew, pew.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: OK, so this was adorable. Um, is Gabby the wife's best friend?
Remoy Philip: You nailed it. They were definitely best friends. Tia, the now deceased wife and partner as uh, Gabby and her were best friends, but also Gabby is a therapist.
It's basically the three therapists in this one clinic, Harrison Ford, the old head, and then Jimmy and Gabby.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: So was it a mistake? Like, does the show inch toward like, maybe they should be together?
Remoy Philip: Uh, the
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: show
Remoy Philip: kind of runs up against traditional TV issues of like romance and kind of those driving, um, pursuits and the, and the drama and the tension it creates because, uh, Spoiler issue, you know, Gabbian and Jimmy have a [00:42:00] really cute relationship towards the end of season one, and it's somewhere in between friends and friends with benefits and something a little bit more.
And then in season two, it kind of changes or for the ends of season one. It changes, um, But it's a really, they're also really good friends and co workers and colleagues, so they have to navigate that and there's, but they're both just great comedic actors, so it's a lot of comedy and real, just evolved support and understanding of relationships and being the fact that they are therapists as characters, like you can understand that they're so well to like communicate and understand and boundaries and things like that, right?
That seem like kind of annoying, but the way that they kind of portrayed on screen is really funny and charming and cool.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: Cute. Um, how long ago did the wife die?
Remoy Philip: That's a good one. Uh, it's only been a handful of years at most. Like, I don't know if it's like visual, like factually communicated or if it is, it's like [00:43:00] a tiny detail at some point that I don't remember, but it's only been a handful of years and they're all processing it very differently, um, between Tia, the daughter, Jimmy, the father, and Gabby, the best friend and colleague.
Okay. Well. We'll see in one clip towards the end, but. The male characters and their friendships are special in this, but the female characters have just great friendships and banter throughout the show. So whether it's Tia, the now deceased mom and Gabby or Tia and her daughter, even Tia and Liz, the neighbor, just really friendly, supportive, great characters.
Actually, let's get into that next clip again. You know, we're, we're evolving this, how our understanding of the show is. So this is coming off the last few clips. Gabby wants me to go to her divorce party
Shrinking Snippet (2): tonight.
Shrinking Snippet: So I don't want to, it feels fake. I can assure you, Gabby is getting a divorce.
Shrinking Snippet (2): It's pissing me off.
Shrinking Snippet: Makes sense. Divorce is always hardest on the coworkers.
Shrinking Snippet (2): She's totally in denial. She's acting like she's super psyched about it. And [00:44:00] I know what you're going to say. I'm triggered because Gabby is choosing to end the marriage and I didn't get to make that choice.
Shrinking Snippet: Okay, you did know. Come on, kiddo, you don't get to dictate how other people grieve.
So Gabby puts on a brave face. Who gives a shit? Me, I gotta kick and scream for a while before I face the truth. But then I face it like a hero. But you, who knows how you grieve? You haven't even begun. What are you talking about? I've been grieving for a fucking year.
Shrinking Snippet (2): No,
Shrinking Snippet: you've been numbing.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: Oof, some hard truths in there.
So, remind me, they basically are all working at the same practice, right?
Remoy Philip: Yeah, it's Harrison Ford Paul's like practice.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: Oh, I see. Okay. So, wait. So is it like, how does the show start? Like, is it like Jason Segel start or Jimmy starts working there or like, how, or is it just like,
Remoy Philip: No, they've all been working there.
[00:45:00] I think Gabby's like maybe the newest employee there, the newest, um, uh, therapist, doctor there, but they have all been working there.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: I see. So the inciting incident is Jimmy's wife dying.
Remoy Philip: The inciting incident is like Jimmy in the middle of a bender with like some drugs and alcohol and stuff devolves.
And then he comes to this come to light moment at the clinic of like how he's going to change how he works with patients.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: Okay. Is he right about Gabby? Like, is she doing the divorce party to like deflect?
Remoy Philip: Yeah, so Gabby, uh, So we, the last scene we talk, we like, uh, Gabby and Uncle Jimmy are having a good time and it's because one of the reasons is like Gabby is coming out of a long term marriage where like a lot of women, whether in reality or portrayed in TV shows, have to be the emotional support and the caring and the financial support for maybe delinquent men or men who can't seem to find their own [00:46:00] way.
So Gabby's coming out of a marriage to that. This, you know, tortured artist, painter, husband just couldn't make it work and was also kind of maybe, I don't remember if he was cheating on her or just delinquent in his own personal life. And so she was coming to a point where it was time to split up. And so.
She's going through this divorce and the way that she wanted to help process that was have a, uh, a divorce a long time in the making. And then by the time this happens in this episode, she's having a fun divorce party to like, kind of commemorate mourn and grieve it.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: Got it. Okay. Um, I'm so curious about, is it Lewis Harrison for his character?
Remoy Philip: Oh, Paul,
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: Paul. Um, about his, I mean, he described the way that he, um, processes pain. He has to kick and scream or whatever, break shit, whatever, before he's able to like face it. Um, [00:47:00] does that, I wonder how much that comes up in the show
Remoy Philip: plays a major role. So there's a couple of things that Paul's wrestling with that, uh, He is makes it's funny, but it's also meaningful is like he one thing major thing is a being an elder statesman He has Parkinson's and he's like dealing figuring out how to deal with that in the world And what his how his body is betraying him.
He can't control his own body and be leaning into the handsome Harrison Ford thing. He was a womanizer of sorts and he himself cheated on his wife when they were young kids and his wife left him and took the kids and he never fully resolved his relationship with his estranged children and that plays a key role.
key role in some of the B and C plots throughout season one and two. And so he's wrestling with that. And the fact that he is such a stodgy, curmudgeonly, stubborn old man and these young therapists like Jessica Williams and him, um, Gabby's care, Gabby and Paul, we have a really funny push and [00:48:00] pull, uh, relationship.
And it's really cool to watch because in a way that not only is Paul, Jimmy's mentor, Paul's Gabby's mentor and Gabby and Paul have a really cool like supportive father daughter relationship in ways that is just really hilarious and cool to see.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: Mm. I
Remoy Philip: like the show. Find the last clip. Let me prepare your questions.
This is more a, um, montage, not one direct scene. But I think it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a montage that for a person who's never seen the show, and especially coming off our conversation of sex in the city and maybe some of its problematic issues or what it embodied on screen, this will be the opposite of that.
Shrinking Snippet: Don't, don't clap at me. I'm too grown for that. Liz, I'ma lose my sh I'ma lose my sh You wanna get f ing drunk? Very badly. [00:49:00] Am I allowed to clap? Oh, please let me do it with you. Please. Show us a ring!
Okay, don't love you as friends. You two are annoying.
Shrinking Snippet: You shook hands? Yes. What a nice gesture. Do you want to come with me to an art show?
Yes, I'll drive. Too thirsty. Liz, a little help, please? I got you, I got you. Freckle here, freckle there. Freckle here, freckle! There, that painting is me. It works for us. It's part of our brand. We have a brand? I'm so excited we have a brand. Still don't love these two as friends. And we don't give a s t. It makes us stronger.
That's a pretty s t, bruh. I want one. No. Come on, don't be like that. As you know, I give these special agates to a select few people. Do we do a ceremony? Do we need to chant? Nope. Just love you. Love you.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: So how did they become friends?
Remoy Philip: So, as we saw in the very first clip, Liz is one of Jimmy's neighbors.
He's like his direct neighbor, Liz and Derek. And again, I don't know how [00:50:00] much of Liz's character is emphasized in Season 1 and Season 2, but because she is such a charismatic, charming actor and how she brings Liz to life, uh, as Gabby comes over, Aunt Gabby comes over to hang out with Jimmy and Tia, his daughter, there's crossover between Liz hanging out and budding in as a, as Liz is like a parachute neighbor does at times and quickly over time their lives over spawned and become besties as sometimes friendships can happen.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: Okay.
Remoy Philip: And again, this model is like a lot of really healthy female relationships and there's a lot of crossover with Tia, the daughter. So the three of them and this kind of like trip, like tripod of like three different Parts of their lives and different socioeconomic backgrounds and situations and cultures become besties and it's really cool.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: Yeah, that is cool. Um, I have a question about, like, I feel like with sex in the city a lot is like, We're focusing on Carrie, like the [00:51:00] characters were made such that as like Carrie and then like, you know, Miranda, Charlotte and Samantha were basically represented three different parts of Carrie's personality.
So it kind of made it see, it basically made it so that Carrie was, you know, they were almost supporting characters to her while still being lead characters, right? In this friendship between. Um, those two women, do you feel like their interests are represented equally? Like, do you feel like one of them is more of a psychic or like more of like a supporting character?
Remoy Philip: Uh, Gabby, because it's Jessica Williams and it's more of a known quantity, she's more of the primary female character of the show at large. But because again, it is like an ensemble show that's really winning and great. Story write, uh, story creation and writing like Liz becomes a primary tertiary character if that's not an oxymoron.
Um, and so as. [00:52:00] Season 2 progresses, her and her husband Derek, again, hilarious, individually and together, they become more, and so they have their own storylines that take, um, the forefront or take the stage. Gabby's is a primary throughout the series, Jimmy's, Jason Segel's is like the primary story, but, you know.
These supporting stories get a lot of time on screen too. And it's a lot of fun.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: Okay. So my last question for you is, um, one thing that, you know, obviously this show kind of grapples with masculinity confronting like demons that sometimes, you know, the mask doesn't let men confront. Um, and I wonder about.
How like, it seems like the friendships are just developed across genders, like really developed across genders. Do you feel like the, the friendships between men? I mean, I feel like I'm going to answer my own question because it seems that that kind of show, but I do want to talk about it. Like, do you feel like the friendships between women [00:53:00] and the friendships between men or the French, the French was between men and the friendships between other genders are, Okay.
Just as rich, just as deep, just as like messy, but like in the good way.
Remoy Philip: Yeah, I think they're all rich and connected. I don't even know if they're that messy as per like traditional TV messiness. Like obviously Jimmy and Gabby have like a romantic tryst that gets a little messy. In some way, but it's actually pretty responsible and they mature and handle it even if you remember Sean the young black man who's living with Jimmy his Jimmy's daughter Tia ends up having a crush on Sean and There's a moment where she's really attracted to him and But the way they handle it is very responsibly, and Sean, this young black man, this young man, doesn't let his opportunity or his libido get the best of him.
He respects her and wants to be a responsible, caring person, and they just become friends. And they're, like, completely [00:54:00] supportive of one another throughout the show, and friendly, and there's other moments, like, uh, no spoilers, but one of the storylines that brings Liz, the funny neighbor, in is she momentarily cheats on Derek, um, and a typical show would make her to be the bad one and like Derek has the right to be upset.
But really the way that the show kind of shifts the perspective is like, it's, uh, it's more complicated than that. And both people, um, have to do a lot of work to like kind of nurture their relationship, but it's. Kind of wrapped up super quick, like they're both quick to learn and adapt and trust and love and care and the, the relationships are both very well handled and cared for by the writers and creators of the show and allowed to make mistakes, but quickly are portrayed in ways that can be shown as like models of what responsible, thoughtful, caring human [00:55:00] friendships and relationships can look like.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: First of all, shout out to you for the million dollar word, Trist. Is that spelled with a Y? I feel like we should do a word of the day by Literati Doy. I feel like I like that. Um, but anyway, it feels like the show gets a lot of things right. Like in a way where I want to get things, I want to like use this show as a model for the how to get things right in my own life in terms of emotional vulnerability and how to deal with conflict.
Remoy Philip: There's like the claim or the, the assertion that we kind of walked through last episode about that TV and like sitcoms and comedy can be, or can be safe spaces for viewers because it allows them to laugh at the absurdity of men. And we. Contrarily, people who produce these shows or make this kind of media or quote unquote art, uh, can't put up, like, the most pristine or well to do or the models of what we should aspire to be, because that would alienate the viewer, and the fact that this show is getting more and more attention on a, on a daily basis.
Network or a streamer that [00:56:00] really doesn't do much about promoting. It shows, um, and it's got stars and stars that are bringing it to life and it's getting more and more intention and growing its viewership. I think it's a little bit of evidence of the contrary of that, uh, that thesis or maybe just an evolution of that thesis in modern day.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: No, I mean, I think like, I mean, it's not a sitcom. I mean, is it a sitcom? I don't know if it, it situates you. It's a sitcom.
Remoy Philip: It's a single cam, not a multi cam, but it's a sitcom.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: Okay. Yeah. So it situates you in the conflict and then you are allowed to see how people are able to deal with it in an evolved manner.
And I think that is like a beautiful thing. And I wish more TV were like that, where, you know, I feel like sex in the ways like is trying to recapture. You know, um, like a normalcy, like something that was viewed as normal, but that we really just were nurtured into, which is like the patriarchal nature of the way that we [00:57:00] deal with relationships, which is usually top down rather than here.
We've got, you know, these like very collaborative approaches, just like talk for, or like listen first, talk later type thing. Very evolved, very evolved.
Remoy Philip: It shows very funny and charming, such great joke writing and bit to bit writing that. You gotta just go and get your laughs off.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: Writing comedy has to be hard.
I mean, right? Like, don't you have experience with this?
Remoy Philip: Sure, man. Don't we all just want to make people laugh?
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: Yeah, I mean, do you have any advice for me for my new writer's journey? I'm trying to write romance that explores equity. I mean, you would know something about that, right?
Remoy Philip: I thought we were just trying to decenter men so we could be real feminists?
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: I mean, who says it's all men? There will be hetero relationships, but trust my characters will contain all the multitudes. Just do shit that makes no sense like men do in real life.
Remoy Philip: Sure. Okay. Uh, but what does the audience think? I mean, what are some characters that actually embody the involved masculinity that you want [00:58:00] for yourself or you want to see more of?
Maybe it sounds like RGP one. I don't know.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: I mean, I like that question, by the way, I was kidding. Everybody does ridiculous shit in real life. Um, and please, please do let us know. Okay. Bye. Right. Like as always, we're a masculinity podcast at gmail. com. You can also hit us up on our website, masculine pod dot com.
Remoy Philip: It'll be someone else checking the socials. Not me, probably Samantha, but you can also slide into our DMs there and holler.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: Yeah, we had a few people tell us what shows they grew up watching with what they watch now a few weeks back, which was very cool. Thank you very much. Like shout out to those who made your preferences known.
These shows will probably come up in a future episode as we continue to talk about TV. So I actually feel like, you know, Ramon, actually some of the ones that people share that I don't. So I'm going to ask you about that, but that's TBD for now.
Remoy Philip: Are they sports related?
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: Yes. Yes, they are.
Remoy Philip: I am more than that.
But thank you very much.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: I mean, don't I know [00:59:00] it? Don't I know it? You're a multitudinal person. Um, so once again, we'll get back to you about that at some point, but for now, Happy New Year, everyone.
Remoy Philip: Uh, 2025. A great way to start it is, you know, five stars, five stars.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: That's right. Wherever you get your podcasts, we'll see you in a few weeks.
Remoy Philip: Uh, yeah, and until then, it's your boy, Roy George Philip, The First,
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: and I'm Samantha Zacique Effat. Thank you so much for listening.
Remoy Philip: Peace.
Samantha Nzessi-Kifle: Ciao.